Episode 2153: Dave Smith | The Brogan Report

Joe Rogan Experience episode #2153 features comedian and libertarian podcaster Dave Smith in a wide-ranging conversation that spreads significant misinformation about Russian election interference, promotes misleading claims about COVID-19 vaccines and natural immunity, and presents a one-sided perspective on complex geopolitical issues. The episode exemplifies Rogan’s pattern of platforming guests who reinforce his skepticism toward mainstream institutions without providing factual counterbalance.

Spreading Misinformation About Russian Election Interference

One of the episode’s most problematic segments involves Dave Smith claiming there was “nothing, no evidence” of Russian interference in the 2016 election. Smith described the Russia investigation as potentially “the biggest news story in the history of the United States of America” where “they were claiming that the current sitting president is guilty of treason” and “was installed by a hostile foreign power who overthrew our elections”—then asserted that after three years, there was “nothing, no evidence pointing toward this conspiracy even existing.”

This claim directly contradicts established facts documented in the Mueller Report and confirmed by U.S. intelligence agencies. The Mueller investigation concluded that Russian interference was “sweeping and systematic” and “violated U.S. criminal law.” The report resulted in 37 indictments, seven guilty pleas or convictions, and detailed two primary methods of interference:

Disinformation and social media campaigns by the Internet Research Agency to sow discord
Computer hacking and strategic release of emails from the Clinton campaign and Democratic Party organizations

Smith went further, suggesting even the evidence of Russian involvement was questionable: “The best they have is, like, there are some bot farms that they can trace to Russian IP addresses” and suggested that “the fact that an IP address traces to Russia is, like, almost more indicative that someone’s trying to frame Russia than it is that Russia was involved.”

This conspiracy-theorizing ignores that in November 2022, Russian oligarch Yevgeny Prigozhin—close to the Kremlin—publicly admitted to Russian interference in U.S. elections, marking the first such admission from someone at that level of Russian power.

While the Mueller Report did not establish that Trump campaign members “conspired or coordinated with the Russian government,” it explicitly noted investigators had an incomplete picture due to encrypted, deleted, or unsaved communications, as well as false or incomplete testimony. Smith’s characterization that there was “no evidence” of Russian interference is categorically false and represents dangerous historical revisionism.

Rogan offered no pushback or factual correction to these claims.

COVID-19 Vaccine Misinformation: Natural Immunity Claims

The episode promoted misleading claims about natural immunity being superior to COVID-19 vaccination. According to transcript analysis, Rogan suggested natural immunity from prior COVID-19 infection is “up to seven times better at preventing new cases” than vaccination.

This claim oversimplifies complex scientific evidence and omits critical context that responsible communicators should provide:

While some studies have shown infection-acquired immunity provides robust protection—with one 2023 study in The Lancet finding it reduced hospitalization and death risk by 88% for at least 10 months—medical experts and current CDC guidance emphasize several crucial points that Rogan failed to mention:

Natural immunity comes with serious risks: Acquiring immunity through infection means risking hospitalization, long COVID, or death. Johns Hopkins Medicine explicitly states that “the problem of saying ‘I’m gonna get infected to get immunity’ is you might be one of those people that end up in the hospital or die.”
Protection wanes over time: Research shows natural immunity weakens over time, and CDC studies from 2024-2025 support vaccination “irrespective of previous COVID-19 vaccination and infection history,” demonstrating added benefit above existing protection.
Vaccine safety profile: Vaccines provide immunity safely without the risks associated with active infection.

The CDC’s current position, based on recent data from September 2024–January 2025, emphasizes that “previous SARS-CoV-2 infection contributes protection against future disease, although protection wanes over time,” while vaccination provides consistent protection without infection risks.

By presenting natural immunity as simply “better” without these critical caveats, Rogan and Smith potentially influenced listeners to forego vaccination—a medically dangerous recommendation from non-experts with massive platforms.

One-Sided Israel-Palestine Discussion

Smith provided an extended discussion of the Israel-Palestine conflict beginning around timestamp 48:03, covering “a current outlook, perspective, and history on the Israeli occupation of Gaza.” While discussing complex geopolitical conflicts can be valuable, the conversation lacked balance and expert perspective.

Smith acknowledged that “Hamas does have bases under schools and hospitals” and “they actually do do that,” but contextualized this by describing Hamas as “essentially a gang in an Israeli prison that, like, rose up as the toughest gang there.” He described Gaza’s geography as “25 by five miles” (comparing it to “a marathon by a jog”) and suggested that “anyone in Israel after October 7 would support fucking flatten Gaza and how anyone in Palestine after what’s going on the last 50 years, there would be like, yeah, I’ll sign up for Hamas.”

This framing—while touching on legitimate critiques of Israeli policy—lacks the nuance, historical context, and expert analysis necessary for such a complex topic. The discussion did not meaningfully engage with:

The stated aims of Hamas to destroy Israel and kill Jewish people
The civilian casualties and humanitarian crisis caused by Hamas’s October 7 attack
The complexity of international law regarding warfare in densely populated areas
Perspectives from Israeli civilians, Palestinian moderates, or Middle East experts

Smith has been widely criticized for using Rogan’s platform (with over 19 million subscribers) to spread what critics called “toxic lies about Israel,” including accusations of “genocide” while allegedly minimizing Hamas’s actions. In later appearances, British author Douglas Murray would directly challenge Smith on these characterizations, noting that “The aims of Hamas, the stated aims, include the annihilation of the Jewish people, and on October 7th, they had their best go at doing that.”

Political Commentary: Mocking Kathy Hochul

The episode opened with Rogan and Smith mocking New York Governor Kathy Hochul for controversial comments she made at the Milken Institute Global Conference, where she stated: “Right now, we have young black kids growing up in the Bronx who don’t even know what the word ‘computer’ is.”

While Hochul’s comment was indeed problematic—she later apologized, saying she “misspoke” and clarifying that “Black children in the Bronx know what computers are—the problem is that they too often lack access to the technology needed to get on track to high-paying jobs in emerging industries like AI”—the discussion used this as a launching point for broader criticism of “modern liberals” and their “perceived weakness.”

Rogan mentioned that young Black content creators made humorous response videos showing themselves confused by computers, treating this as further evidence of liberal foolishness rather than community members rightfully mocking a patronizing comment.

The segment also included Rogan pointing out that “San Francisco decided to provide free alcohol to the homeless” as another example of misguided liberal policy, without engaging with the actual public health rationale for harm reduction programs or the evidence supporting such interventions.

The Pattern: Misinformation Without Accountability

Episode #2153 exemplifies The Joe Rogan Experience’s most dangerous pattern: presenting conspiracy theories and misinformation as reasonable skepticism, promoting medical claims without expert consultation, and discussing complex geopolitical issues without proper context or balance.

When Dave Smith claims there’s “no evidence” of Russian election interference, he’s not offering legitimate criticism of media narratives—he’s denying documented historical facts. When Rogan promotes natural immunity as superior to vaccination without mentioning the risks of acquiring immunity through infection, he’s not “asking questions”—he’s spreading medical misinformation that could harm listeners.

The episode reveals Rogan’s comfort zone: libertarian guests who share his distrust of mainstream institutions, reinforcing narratives about media dishonesty, government overreach, and expert corruption without subjecting those narratives to the same scrutiny applied to “mainstream” sources.

With an audience of millions, Rogan has a responsibility to fact-check claims, consult experts, and provide context. This episode demonstrates a complete failure to meet that standard, potentially leaving listeners with dangerously false information about election security, public health, and international conflict.

As Rogan’s influence continues to grow, the absence of editorial oversight or accountability becomes increasingly indefensible. “Just having conversations” is not a defense when those conversations spread misinformation that contradicts documented evidence and expert consensus.