Episode 1721: Michael Malice | The Brogan Report

Introduction

Episode 1721 of the Joe Rogan Experience, featuring author and podcaster Michael Malice, aired on October 19, 2021. While Malice is a well-known cultural commentator and self-described anarchist with legitimate credentials as an author and media figure, this episode is problematic primarily because of Joe Rogan himself. Throughout the three-hour conversation, Rogan used the episode as a platform to repeat and amplify multiple false and misleading claims about COVID-19, ivermectin, and vaccines that he had been promoting throughout the pandemic.

Michael Malice — who has no medical or scientific credentials — largely served as an agreeable sounding board as Rogan made unverified medical claims, promoted conspiracy theories about pharmaceutical companies, and misrepresented scientific data about vaccine safety in children. The episode aired during a critical period of the COVID-19 pandemic when vaccine hesitancy was already a significant public health challenge, and Rogan’s audience of millions amplified the reach of these misleading statements.

The Guest’s Background

Michael Malice (born Michael Krechmer, 1976) is a Ukrainian-American author, podcaster, and political commentator. He is the host of “YOUR WELCOME” on PodcastOne and the author of Dear Reader: The Unauthorized Autobiography of Kim Jong Il, The New Right: A Journey to the Fringe of American Politics, and The Anarchist Handbook. He attended Bucknell University and previously worked at Goldman Sachs. He describes himself politically as an anarchist.

Malice has legitimate credentials as a cultural commentator and author, but he has no training in medicine, virology, immunology, or public health. His presence on the episode is not the primary concern — the issue is Rogan’s use of the conversation to promote medical misinformation.

Source: Michael Malice - Wikipedia

Key False and Misleading Claims

Claim: 200 Members of Congress Were Treated with Ivermectin

Rogan claimed that Dr. Pierre Kory’s Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (FLCCC) had treated approximately 200 members of Congress with ivermectin for COVID-19, presenting this as evidence that ivermectin works and that its suppression is politically motivated.

Fact-Check: This claim originated from a single tweet by Dr. Pierre Kory on October 7, 2021, in which Kory stated: “Between 100-200 United States Congress Members (plus many of their staffers & family members) with COVID.. were treated by a colleague over the past 15 months with ivermectin & the I-MASK+ protocol.” Kory later clarified that he did not personally treat these members, that the claim came from “a highly credible source inside Congress who has asked to remain anonymous,” and that he did not know their identities himself. No verifiable evidence — no names, medical records, or corroborating testimony — has ever been provided to substantiate this claim. An unverified claim from an anonymous source, repeated on the world’s largest podcast, does not constitute evidence.

Source: RealClearPolitics - Joe Rogan: Dr. Pierre Kory Treated 200 Members of Congress With Ivermectin

Claim: Ivermectin Was “Demonized” Because It Is a Cheap Generic Drug

Rogan suggested that ivermectin was being suppressed as a COVID treatment because it is a generic drug costing “like 30 cents a dose,” implying that pharmaceutical companies and regulators conspired to suppress a cheap, effective treatment in favor of expensive vaccines and patented drugs.

Fact-Check: The FDA, WHO, and NIH did not recommend ivermectin for COVID-19 treatment outside of clinical trials because the clinical evidence did not support its efficacy — not because of a pharmaceutical conspiracy. A Cochrane systematic review found the evidence for ivermectin’s effectiveness against COVID-19 to be of “very low certainty.” Several of the early studies that appeared to show benefits were later found to contain serious methodological flaws, and at least one major study (Elgazzar et al.) was retracted due to concerns about data fabrication. When that fraudulent study was excluded from meta-analyses, the apparent benefit of ivermectin largely disappeared. The FDA explicitly stated: “Currently available clinical data do not demonstrate that ivermectin is effective against COVID-19.”

Sources:

Claim: Young Boys Are More Likely to Get Myocarditis from Vaccines Than from COVID

Rogan stated that 12- to 15-year-old boys are “much more likely” to experience myocarditis from the COVID-19 vaccine than from COVID-19 infection itself, using this to argue against vaccinating children.

Fact-Check: This claim misrepresents the scientific data available at the time and contradicts subsequent large-scale studies. CDC data published in MMWR in March 2022, covering January 2021 through January 2022, found that the risk for cardiac outcomes was 1.8 to 5.6 times as high after SARS-CoV-2 infection than after the second vaccine dose for males aged 12-17. A study in The Lancet Child & Adolescent Health found that over six months, COVID-19 infection led to 2.24 extra cases of myocarditis or pericarditis per 100,000 children, compared with 0.85 extra cases per 100,000 after vaccination. Furthermore, vaccine-associated myocarditis typically presents mildly, resolves quickly (average hospital stay of one day), and has a good prognosis, whereas COVID-related myocarditis tends to be more severe (average hospital stay of six days). The CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices concluded in June 2021 that the benefits of COVID-19 vaccination clearly outweighed the risks of myocarditis.

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Claim: The “Inventor of mRNA” Said It Should Never Be Used in a Pandemic

Malice referenced “one of the gentlemen who created the mRNA vaccine” saying it should never be used in a pandemic. This appears to be a reference to Dr. Robert Malone, who has promoted himself as the “inventor” of mRNA vaccines.

Fact-Check: Dr. Robert Malone contributed to early research on mRNA transfection in the late 1980s, but the development of mRNA vaccine technology involved decades of work by hundreds of researchers. Credit for key breakthroughs is more accurately attributed to scientists like Katalin Kariko and Drew Weissman, whose work on modified nucleosides made mRNA vaccines practical. Malone has spread multiple debunked claims about COVID-19 vaccines, including the unfounded assertion that vaccines cause “a form of AIDS” and the pseudoscientific concept of “mass formation psychosis.” He was permanently suspended from Twitter in December 2021 for repeated violations of its COVID-19 misinformation policy. Presenting Malone as “the inventor of mRNA vaccines” inflates his role and lends false authority to his anti-vaccine claims.

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Claim: Pharmaceutical Companies Are Conspiring to Force Everyone to Be Their Customer

Both Rogan and Malice suggested that pharmaceutical companies have a financial incentive to suppress cheap treatments and force vaccination, pointing to Pfizer’s social media advertising of mRNA technology as evidence.

Fact-Check: While legitimate concerns about pharmaceutical industry influence are valid topics for discussion, presenting an unfounded conspiracy theory as fact — that pharmaceutical companies are actively suppressing proven treatments in favor of vaccines — is misleading. The regulatory decision-making around ivermectin was based on a lack of clinical evidence supporting its use, not corporate suppression. Pharmaceutical companies do have profit motives, but this does not validate the specific claim that effective COVID treatments were hidden from the public. The framing implies that the FDA, WHO, NIH, and scientific community worldwide are all complicit in a conspiracy, which is an extraordinary claim presented without extraordinary evidence.

Joe Rogan’s Role

This episode is a clear example of Joe Rogan acting not as a skeptical interviewer but as the primary source of misinformation:

Rogan originated most of the false medical claims. Rather than a problematic guest leading Rogan astray, Rogan himself drove the COVID misinformation in this episode. He volunteered the unverified claim about 200 Congress members and ivermectin, he pushed the misleading myocarditis narrative, and he promoted the pharmaceutical conspiracy theory.
Rogan presented unverified claims as fact. The ivermectin/Congress claim was sourced from a single unverified tweet by a doctor who was himself relying on an anonymous source. Rogan presented this as established fact to millions of listeners.
Rogan cherry-picked and misrepresented data. His claims about myocarditis risk in children selectively cited data that appeared to support his position while ignoring the broader scientific consensus that vaccination benefits outweighed risks.
Rogan framed legitimate regulatory processes as conspiracy. By characterizing the FDA’s evidence-based decision not to recommend ivermectin as “demonization” driven by pharmaceutical profits, Rogan undermined public trust in the institutions responsible for drug safety.
No pushback from the guest. Because Malice is not a medical expert, there was no one to challenge Rogan’s claims during the conversation. Malice largely agreed with and amplified Rogan’s talking points, creating an echo chamber effect.

This episode came just days after Rogan’s confrontation with CNN’s Dr. Sanjay Gupta (Episode 1718, October 13, 2021), in which Rogan pressured Gupta into conceding that CNN should not have called ivermectin “horse dewormer.” While Rogan had a legitimate point about CNN’s misleading framing — ivermectin is an FDA-approved human medication for certain parasitic infections — Rogan used this media criticism win to reinforce his broader, unfounded narrative that ivermectin is an effective COVID treatment being suppressed by the establishment.

Real-World Impact

This episode aired at a pivotal moment in the pandemic:

Vaccine hesitancy: In October 2021, the United States was averaging over 1,000 COVID-19 deaths per day. Vaccine hesitancy remained a significant barrier to ending the pandemic. Rogan’s claims about myocarditis risk in children directly undermined efforts to vaccinate adolescents.
Ivermectin misuse: Throughout 2021, poison control centers reported dramatic increases in calls related to ivermectin misuse. The CDC issued a health advisory in August 2021 warning about increased ivermectin prescriptions and use of veterinary ivermectin products, with some patients requiring hospitalization.
Erosion of institutional trust: By framing the FDA, CDC, and pharmaceutical companies as participants in a conspiracy to suppress cheap treatments, the episode contributed to declining public trust in health institutions during a public health emergency.
Scale of reach: The Joe Rogan Experience is the most listened-to podcast in the world. Medical misinformation spread on this platform reaches millions of listeners, many of whom may take Rogan’s statements as authoritative guidance on health decisions.

Source: CDC Health Alert Network - Rapid Increase in Ivermectin Prescriptions

Conclusion

While Episode 1721 also contained legitimate discussion topics — internet culture, media criticism, comedy, and political tribalism — the substantial volume of COVID-19 misinformation makes it problematic. Joe Rogan was the primary driver of false medical claims in this episode, using Michael Malice as a sympathetic audience for his ongoing campaign to promote ivermectin, undermine vaccine confidence, and frame public health institutions as corrupt.

The episode demonstrates a recurring pattern in which Rogan leverages legitimate grievances about media behavior (such as CNN’s “horse dewormer” characterization) to build credibility for much broader and more dangerous misinformation about vaccine safety and treatment efficacy. Listeners who agreed with Rogan’s media criticism may have been more receptive to his unsubstantiated medical claims as a result.