Episode 1697: Zuby | The Brogan Report

Introduction

Episode 1697, featuring British rapper and podcaster Zuby (Nzube Olisaebuka Udezue), aired on August 18, 2021, during the Delta variant surge that was killing over 1,000 Americans per day. Despite having no credentials in medicine, epidemiology, or public health, Zuby used his nearly three-hour platform to systematically spread COVID-19 misinformation, oppose vaccination efforts, mock transgender athletes, and promote extreme anti-government ideology — all without meaningful pushback from Rogan.

Zuby, an Oxford-educated computer science graduate turned independent rapper and podcaster, had gained a large social media following during the pandemic by posting anti-lockdown and anti-mandate content. His viral “20 Things I’ve Learned During the Pandemic” Twitter thread, which characterized science as “a secular pseudo-religion,” had been widely shared on conservative media. This episode effectively amplified those views to Rogan’s audience of millions at one of the most critical points in the pandemic.

Who is Zuby?

Zuby holds a degree in computer science from St Edmund Hall, Oxford University. He is an independent rapper who has released multiple albums and sold over 25,000 copies without a record label. In 2019, he launched the “Real Talk with Zuby” podcast, which focuses on culture, politics, and personal development. He has no credentials in medicine, epidemiology, public health, virology, or any health-related field.

Zuby gained mainstream attention in March 2019 when he posted a video of himself deadlifting 238 kg while claiming to “identify as a woman,” a stunt designed to mock transgender athletes. He has since become a prominent voice in conservative media, appearing on outlets like the Daily Wire, Tucker Carlson, and Louder with Crowder.

COVID-19 Misinformation

Claim: COVID-19 Risks Are Overblown and the Response Is Disproportionate

Zuby described a “pandemic of hypochondriacs” and argued that society had shifted from “healthy until proven sick” to assuming everyone is infected. He characterized COVID concern as disproportionate to actual hospitalization and death rates, and criticized tracking case numbers as “emotional blackmail.”

The Facts:

As of August 2021, COVID-19 had killed over 620,000 Americans and over 130,000 people in the UK, according to Johns Hopkins University. The Delta variant was causing a massive surge, with the U.S. averaging over 1,000 deaths per day by mid-August 2021, according to the CDC. Characterizing concern about a disease that had killed millions worldwide as a “pandemic of hypochondriacs” is dangerously dismissive and unsupported by evidence.

Claim: The Average Age of COVID Death Is Close to Average Life Expectancy, Implying Minimal Impact

Zuby repeated the common talking point that because the average age of COVID death in the UK was close to average life expectancy, the virus was not a serious threat.

The Facts:

This claim is deeply misleading. As Full Fact has explained, life expectancy at birth is an average pulled down by people who die young. An 82-year-old man could expect to live to approximately 89, and an 85-year-old woman could expect to live to approximately 92. According to the Health Foundation, up to 1.5 million potential years of life were lost to COVID-19 in the UK, with each person who died losing an average of 10 years of remaining life. This claim essentially argues that elderly people’s remaining years of life do not matter.

Claim: Children Face Negligible Risk and Should Not Face Any Restrictions

Zuby questioned why children faced any COVID-related restrictions given their low risk profile.

The Facts:

While children face lower risks than adults, the risk is not zero. According to a CDC MMWR report from 2021, nearly one-third of hospitalized adolescents required intensive care unit admission, and 5% required invasive mechanical ventilation. Crucially, nearly 30% of hospitalized adolescents had no reported underlying medical condition. Additionally, children can transmit the virus to more vulnerable family members and community members, a key public health consideration that Zuby ignored entirely.

Claim: Science Has Become a “Secular Pseudo-Religion”

In his viral “20 Things I’ve Learned” thread, which was discussed on this episode, Zuby characterized scientific consensus as a “secular pseudo-religion” and suggested that people who follow scientific guidance are doing so out of blind faith rather than evidence.

The Facts:

This framing fundamentally misrepresents how science works. Scientific consensus on COVID-19 was based on peer-reviewed research, clinical trials involving tens of thousands of participants, and real-world data from billions of vaccine doses administered. Characterizing evidence-based public health measures as religious dogma is a classic science denial tactic documented by researchers including Diethelm and McKee in the European Journal of Public Health.

Vaccine Misinformation

Claim: Vaccine Mandates Create “Medical Apartheid”

Zuby warned about creating “a two-tier society based on vaccination status” and characterized vaccine passports as “medical apartheid” and a “dangerous precedent.”

The Facts:

The term “medical apartheid” grossly trivializes the systematic racial oppression of apartheid in South Africa. As The Everyday Magazine noted, anti-lockdown activists misappropriated this term: choosing not to receive a free, widely available vaccine is fundamentally different from being subjected to systematic racial oppression. Vaccine requirements have a long legal and public health history — schools have required vaccines for decades, and international travel has long required proof of vaccination for diseases like yellow fever.

Opposing Vaccination While Lacking Medical Credentials

Zuby advocated against COVID-19 vaccination, calling for “long-term studies” before accepting the vaccines, while opposing what he called “forced medical interventions.”

The Facts:

By August 2021, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine had received full FDA approval based on extensive clinical trial data. According to PolitiFact, mRNA vaccines are not gene therapy — they do not alter DNA and the mRNA degrades after producing the spike protein. The vaccines had been administered to billions of people worldwide with robust safety monitoring. Zuby, with a computer science degree, was effectively advising millions of listeners to reject the consensus of the global medical and scientific community.

Anti-Trans Rhetoric

The Deadlift Stunt

In March 2019, Zuby posted a video of himself deadlifting 238 kg while claiming to “identify as a woman,” asserting he had “broken” the British women’s deadlift record. According to his own Twitter post and RT, he stated this was meant to demonstrate “the obvious absurdity” of transgender athletes competing in women’s sports.

Why This Is Harmful:

This stunt fundamentally misrepresents what being transgender means. As Outsports and numerous trans advocacy organizations have noted, briefly “identifying as a woman” to make a political point is not the same as being transgender. Transgender women competing in sports undergo hormone therapy that significantly affects muscle mass, bone density, and strength. The International Olympic Committee had policies requiring transgender women to maintain testosterone levels below certain thresholds for specified periods before competing.

Zuby’s stunt has been widely cited by anti-trans activists and has contributed to a climate of hostility toward transgender athletes. In 2021, the year this episode aired, at least 50 transgender and gender non-conforming people were killed in the U.S., according to the Human Rights Campaign, making it the deadliest year on record.

Joe Rogan’s Role

Throughout this nearly three-hour episode, Rogan failed to challenge any of Zuby’s misinformation or provide meaningful counterpoints:

Amplified COVID minimization: Rogan did not push back on Zuby’s characterization of COVID concern as a “pandemic of hypochondriacs,” despite the Delta variant killing over 1,000 Americans per day at the time of recording.
Endorsed anti-vaccine sentiment: Rather than noting that the Pfizer vaccine had just received full FDA approval, Rogan allowed Zuby’s unqualified medical opinions to go unchallenged.
Platformed anti-trans rhetoric: Rogan, who has repeatedly hosted anti-trans content, provided no pushback on Zuby’s deadlift stunt or his dismissal of transgender athletes’ legitimacy.
Reinforced anti-government extremism: Rogan did not challenge Zuby’s characterization of taxation as “robbery” or his claim that government should have a minimal role in public health.
Failed as an interviewer: At no point did Rogan note Zuby’s complete lack of medical, scientific, or public health credentials while allowing him to make sweeping claims about vaccine safety, disease risk, and public health policy.

This episode aired during a period when PolitiFact had already fact-checked Rogan himself for falsely claiming mRNA vaccines are “gene therapy” — demonstrating a pattern of Rogan actively contributing to vaccine misinformation rather than merely failing to challenge it.

Real-World Harm

This episode aired at a critical moment in the pandemic:

Vaccine hesitancy was costing lives: By August 2021, the vast majority of COVID-19 hospitalizations and deaths in the U.S. were among unvaccinated individuals, according to the CDC. Content that discouraged vaccination directly contributed to preventable deaths.
The Delta variant surge: The Delta variant was causing a massive wave of infections, hospitalizations, and deaths in the summer of 2021, particularly in areas with low vaccination rates.
Anti-trans violence: 2021 was the deadliest year on record for transgender Americans, and rhetoric mocking and delegitimizing transgender identities contributes to the climate that enables this violence.
Audience scale: With an estimated 11 million listeners per episode, Rogan’s platform reaches more people than most cable news shows. Allowing unqualified individuals to spread medical misinformation at this scale has measurable public health consequences.

Conclusion

Episode 1697 exemplifies how the Joe Rogan Experience can serve as a vehicle for harmful misinformation. Zuby — a rapper and podcaster with no medical, scientific, or public health credentials — was given nearly three hours to spread COVID-19 misinformation, oppose lifesaving vaccination efforts, mock transgender people, and promote extreme anti-government ideology. Rogan’s complete failure to challenge any of these claims, combined with his enormous audience, makes this episode a case study in irresponsible platforming during a public health emergency.