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Episode 1538: Douglas Murray

anti-trans rhetoric identity politics gender identity race COVID-19 misinformation

Introduction

Episode 1538, featuring Douglas Murray, aired on September 17, 2020. Murray appeared to promote his book The Madness of Crowds: Gender, Race and Identity, using the platform to advance anti-trans rhetoric, dismiss gender identity as a social contagion, and make misleading claims about BLM protests and COVID-19 transmission.

TL;DR: A political commentator with no scientific or medical credentials presents anti-trans claims that directly contradict the medical consensus of the APA, AMA, and every major medical organization, while Rogan amplifies rather than challenges these positions.

Who Is the Guest?

Douglas Murray is a British author, journalist, and associate editor of The Spectator. He studied English at Magdalen College, Oxford. He was formerly associate director of the Henry Jackson Society, a conservative think tank.

Murray has no credentials in medicine, psychology, biology, or any scientific field. His expertise is in political commentary and journalism. Despite this, he makes sweeping claims about gender identity, transgender health care, and the validity of trans people’s experiences — topics where the scientific and medical consensus is clear.

Problem 1: Anti-Trans Rhetoric Contradicting Medical Consensus

Murray used the episode to promote claims from his book that directly contradict the positions of every major medical and psychological organization.

Key claims made:

Murray has stated that “it is a lie that a man can become a woman” and compared societal acceptance of trans people to a “late-empire sign of things falling apart.”

Murray also asserted that non-binary gender identity does not exist, and that attempts to reconcile trans identity claims are “an invitation to madness on a vast and costly scale.”

What the evidence actually says:

  • American Psychological Association (2024): Adopted a landmark policy affirming evidence-based care for transgender, gender diverse, and nonbinary individuals. The resolution passed 153-9. APA Policy

  • American Medical Association: States that an “established body of medical research” demonstrates the effectiveness and necessity of “mental health care, hormone therapy, and sex reassignment surgery” in treating gender dysphoria. AMA Statements

  • APA (2015): Published comprehensive guidelines for psychological practice with transgender and gender nonconforming people, establishing professional standards for supportive care. APA Guidelines

  • Multiple major medical organizations including the American Academy of Pediatrics, the Endocrine Society, and the World Professional Association for Transgender Health support gender-affirming care based on extensive clinical evidence.

  • Research on health outcomes: Gender-affirming care has been linked to dramatically reduced rates of suicide attempts, decreased depression and anxiety, and improved overall mental health outcomes. GLAAD Summary

Why it matters

Murray is a political commentator making medical and scientific claims that contradict the consensus of every major medical organization. When amplified to millions of listeners, these claims contribute to stigma, discrimination, and policy decisions that harm transgender people.

Problem 2: Dismissing Identity as “Madness”

Murray framed contemporary discussions about gender, race, and sexuality as a form of collective insanity, claiming that identity politics movements “don’t really want a discussion — they want compliance.”

What the evidence actually says:

  • The Guardian’s William Davies described Murray’s book as “the bizarre fantasies of a rightwing provocateur, blind to oppression,” noting the irony of Murray championing liberal values while praising authoritarian leaders like Hungarian PM Viktor Orban.

  • Academic review (PMC, 2021): A peer-reviewed analysis noted that “much of what has happened since Murray’s book was published adds grist to the mill of its critics,” with recent extremism having “much more to do with the alt-right than with the proponents of identity politics.” PMC Review

  • Scientific American has documented how pseudoscience has historically been used to oppress transgender people, noting that anti-trans claims often rely on outdated or discredited research. Scientific American

Why it matters

Framing the existence and rights of marginalized communities as “madness” is not neutral commentary. It provides intellectual cover for discriminatory policies and contributes to a climate where trans people, in particular, face increased harassment and violence.

Problem 3: Misleading Claims About BLM Protests and COVID-19

Murray claimed that BLM protests were a major driver of COVID-19 transmission, stating that “50,000 people marching through the streets, arm in arm” was “spreading the disease” and that there was a “giant uptick of the disease in America” directly connected to protests.

What the evidence actually says:

  • NBER Study (2020): Researchers found “no evidence that urban protests reignited COVID-19 case growth” across 315 U.S. cities in the three weeks following protest onset. The study found modest evidence of a small decline in case growth. NBER Working Paper

  • PMC Study (2022): Analysis of 12 cities found no increase in COVID-19 incidence post-protest in 11 out of 12 cities, with mask usage at protests ranging from 69% to 96%. PMC Study

  • Northeastern University (2020): A national study found that racial justice protests were not a major cause of COVID-19 infection surges, partly because outdoor transmission risk is significantly lower than indoor transmission. Northeastern Global News

  • Cato Institute: Even this libertarian think tank’s review of the evidence found that risk-avoidance behaviors by non-protesters in protest cities, combined with mask-wearing by protesters, explained why BLM protests did not reignite COVID-19 growth. Cato Research Brief

Why it matters

Blaming racial justice protests for COVID spread — without evidence — serves to delegitimize those protests and the concerns about police violence that motivated them.

Joe Rogan’s Role

Rogan was largely sympathetic to Murray’s positions throughout the episode, describing The Madness of Crowds as “eerily accurate” and stating it “could be used as a guide to what’s happening.”

  • Failed to challenge anti-trans claims: Rogan did not push back on Murray’s assertion that trans identity is “a lie” or that accepting trans people signals civilizational decline.

  • Amplified rather than questioned: Rather than bringing scientific or medical context to bear on Murray’s claims about gender identity, Rogan treated Murray’s political opinions as equivalent to medical expertise.

  • No alternative perspective offered: At no point did Rogan reference the medical consensus on gender-affirming care or note Murray’s lack of relevant credentials.

The Credentials Gap

This episode exemplifies a recurring problem on the podcast: treating political commentators as authorities on scientific and medical topics.

  • Murray’s training: English literature (Oxford), journalism, political commentary
  • Topics he opined on: Gender identity, transgender health care, psychology of gender, epidemiology of COVID transmission
  • Relevant expertise required: Medicine, psychology, biology, epidemiology, public health

The gap between Murray’s credentials and the topics he addressed is significant. While Murray is entitled to political opinions, presenting those opinions as factual claims about medicine and science — without challenge — misleads the audience.

Sources

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